you look at obama care. costs has risen dramatically and in the past year it is implemented. >>> and wind power. for example, we got into wind power and it costs more to get energy from wind power than it did and going back to medicare . look at medicare. hold on, biggest government invasion in the health care program that we have had in our lifetime. they lose 60 billion a year on waste and fraud . you call that efficient in --? >> it depends on your philosophy. mark, just answer the question. >> what? >> is $60 billion of loss waste and efficient. >> if your figures are correct, no. >> by the way, the figure comes from hard right conservatives at 60 minutes. that's where it came from. >> look, it depends on your philosophy. no government is not as efficient as the private sector. the private sector is only rations care and only available for people who are insured. there are 40 million americans without insurance. do we want an elite group covered by insurance and they are subsidizing the poor and underins